Olds intrigue oil problem

[Split_skull1]

Ok i have a 2000 olds intrigue gl and im having a problem an not a single person has ben able to give me a solution. I wana say this thing is cooking the oil because it is black as hell an low or bone dry no matter how many times i change oil an filter or the brand or quality of oil its dry an black in 1-2 weeks. So i park in the same old spots everyday an no oil on ground so no leaks that i can see an i font have oil smoke comein out of tail pipe. Took it to NTB an they have some of the worst people ever they told me ooh it looks like the valve cover gasket is bad.... So i baught a new one an wean i got old off it was looking better than new one... So im lost an i have ben to.... Auto zone, napa, o rileys, advanced autoparts, Ntb.... An a few places hear an their an nothing but a waste of gas? Any one got any ideas?

My e mail is Split_skull1@yahoo.Com

 

[krivasolds]

Check to make sure the PCV system is intact and operating correctly.

Make sure you have a clean intake air filter.

A puff of smoke on startup can indicate worn valve stem seals that would increase oil consumption.

Chronically running your engine low on oil will cause the remaining oil to darken prematurely.

The oil darkening issue may simply be a sign of the oil cleaning a sludged motor. Next time you replace the engine oil filter, examine the pleats for sludge being removed.

Mobil Super Clean and Pennzoil Platinum are effective in slow and gentle cleaning of sludged motors - I have seen very positive results.

 

[Split_skull1]

Ok now i would like to hear from some one who has real answers as to why an wear this oil is going? Its not burning it the exhaust as their is no smoke at all... Its not leaking or it might be internal.... Im not a mechanic so what do i know.... Hints to why im asking what is wrong?

 

[C&C]

A properly functioning catalytic converter will clean the oil out of your exhaust stream (at least until it gets overwhelmed). As 'kriva' mentioned above check for that puff of blue smoke at start-up (before the converter fires off). Black oil doesn't necessarily mean anything bad (usually depends on brand and their base stock). A plugged pcv can prevent proper venting and force those gases to remain in the crankcase, increasing pressure and allowing oil vapor past the rings and valve guides (need to check this first in my opinion).

And not to demean you but are you starting with a full crankcase (Intrigue takes 6 quarts to fill); a full crankcase performs (maintains) level much better than one that is down a quart or two.

Any CEL's or drive-ability problems; so far you asked at auto-parts suppliers, may next, take it to a certified mechanic.

 

[swagled]

Intrigues are known for "disappearing" oil when they get old. Some burns, some leaks out, some can get mixed into the coolant (which also leaks out). There have been some posts here that synthetic oil does not leak as badly.

Also keep in mind that the lighter solutions of the oil burn off first, causing the oil volume to contract with age. You notice this more with large capacity engines than with small 4 cyclinder cars.

 

[justtrying]

Ok i have a 2000 olds intrigue gl and im having a problem an not a single person has ben able to give me a solution. I wana say this thing is cooking the oil because it is black as hell an low or bone dry no matter how many times i change oil an filter or the brand or quality of oil its dry an black in 1-2 weeks. So i park in the same old spots everyday an no oil on ground so no leaks that i can see an i font have oil smoke comein out of tail pipe. Took it to NTB an they have some of the worst people ever they told me ooh it looks like the valve cover gasket is bad.... So i baught a new one an wean i got old off it was looking better than new one... So im lost an i have ben to.... Auto zone, napa, o rileys, advanced autoparts, Ntb.... An a few places hear an their an nothing but a waste of gas? Any one got any ideas?

My e mail is Split_skull1@yahoo.Com

But what type and viscosity oil are you using?

 

[billcarson]

krivasolds gave you some good advice,now i'll give you some.loose the attitude and start again.

 

[OldsIntrigueOneOwner99]

Balance Shaft Seal

My personal experience with this same problem tells me you are likely losing oil through your balance shaft seal. Oil is escaping through this seal, getting sucked through the bad seals on your intake manifold, and then pumped out of your exhaust system. You in essence have (at least) two problems.

In the hunt for the 10 year running oil leak in my Intrigue, I disassembled everything above the block of two 3.5 Intrigue motors at the local junkyard last year. I found the same exact problem in both motors. I then picked up a new balance shaft seal 2 months ago at a GM dealer for an, "are you kidding me?", entire $8. (If you plan on keeping your Intrigue for years to come, buy a second one.) The intake manifold seals should be about $6 at your local auto parts store.

The balance shaft seal was brittle in both motors (as well as my own) and it will disintegrate upon removal. You will be peeling this seal off your block in no less than three dozen pieces. It is not likely you will be able to remove this entire seal with any scrapping tool. Parts of this seal will effectively be super-glued to your block.

This would be a good time to change the throttle bottle gasket. I will cost you about $2. You will likely find oil caked onto both sides of your throttle body valve so clean it spotless.

What you will need;
1) balance shaft seal, intake manifold seals, and throttle body gasket
2) a dremel with a light wood sanding head.
3) scraping tool
4) 10mm socket (for the balance shaft cover)
5) Calcium, Lime, & Rust (CLR) cleaner ( not just brake cleaner because we all know how quickly it evaporates. )
6) gasket sealant
7) lots of time

Those who worry about using a light sanding head and grinding down the metal and damaging a proper seal with the balance cover - please worry not. Just don't press the down hard on the grinder and you will do no damage to the block.

Special Notes:
1) When you have the balance shaft cover off, be sure to line the entire shaft compartment with a large plastic garbage bag. (A white bag will make it much easier to see what you're doing.) You also do not want any debris mixing with your oil and then being circulated throughout your engine.

2) Be sure to also place a plastic shopping bag in each of the 6 openings leading to your valves to avoid debris getting near your valves. If any of your valves are not closed, any debris will then of course get into your pistons.

3) If you are tempted to thoroughly clean the top of your block, use the CLR listed above, but avoid dumping it on your block. Even with bags down, it could still easily get into the oil below your balance shaft. It would change the chemistry of your oil and if too much gets in kiss your engine goodbye. Pour it on a rag and "dab it" on your engine block. It will need to sit and eat away at the oil so this is when I took breaks the most.

4) Avoid the temptation to scrape oil off the walls of the balance shaft compartment. This oil has long ago dried up and is essentially no longer "oil," but foreign debris. It could damage your engine if it mixes with your existing oil. If you wish to remove any of it, rub it off with a rag dipped in fresh oil, and make sure your trash bag is trapping any debris you knock off.

5) Pour a small amount of oil along the full length of your balance shaft.

6) Perfectly clean the surface where you intake manifold will rest on your engine block.

7) Do not use gasket sealant on the balance shaft seal, as the pressure it will be under (once you re-install the balance shaft cover) will force it out and into your oil within the compartment. Only use the sealant for the intake manifold gaskets. You will not need any sealant on the throttle body gasket.

**** This entire job took a total of slightly over 20 hours ****

Photos*************
#1 - side 1: before removing balance cover and before any cleaning - side 2: after all cleaning and after removing old seal
#2 - old balance shaft seal - notice the oil leakage on left of photo, while the right side did not leak through
#3 - old intake manifold seals, many were flattened
#4 - new seals, notice pronounced ridge on all 6 seals
#5 - before and after throttle body cleaning

*** If you want higher resolution copies of any of these photos just email me.

 

[krivasolds]

OIOO99 -

Interesting. I haven't done this job, and far be it from me to contradict someone who has, but I have a couple of comments.

1) Blue can easy off is a very effective sludge remover. I have 20K miles on a similar GM V-6 with no ill effects. I just don't leave it on very long, and it will discolor aluminum and plated metal.

2) Any time you clean sludge out of a motor, the oil should be drained, solvent (kerosene, diesel or berryman's) should be used to flush any solids out the drain plug, and a new oil and filter installed. Short oil change intervals should be used until filter examination reveals particles have been removed.

3) The factory advises against using any sealant on the manifold to head gaskets, and I have 50K on mine that I replaced after doing the head gasket without sealant.

4) Permatex Ultra Grey sealant is very good at making beads, instead of oozing out and dripping, when the instructions are followed, which include assembling, allowing it to partially dry and then fully torquing.

5) What kind of fuel do you use? Your valves look clean, like mine. What was the mileage on that motor? Did you ever do any top-end cleaning? I would appreciate hi-res pix of the valves. Could you PM me?

6) You are talking about an external oil leak, on top of the engine, that then gets sucked into the intake manifold through a leaky gasket. Did you verify the intake leaks? Didn't you have run problems or poor gas mileage?

7) What was your oil consumption rate?

Thanks, sorry for all the questions.

 

[505_pike]

krivasolds gave you some good advice,now i'll give you some.loose the attitude and start again.

^I second this. And some polishing up on grammar helps the people reading your post understand what you're trying to say. I'm not even going to bother, you dismissing the first response to your question as nothing leaves me dismissing your problem. Fix it yourself, or take it to a mechanic is my standing.

 

[swagled]

I think the OP has disappeared so it's not worth giving netiquette lessons.

But the discussion of how these engines age is interesting. Intrigue owners are a bit like Corvair owners. GM didn't make the engines for very long and we're on our own learning what wears out first and how to keep the cars running.

 

[OldsIntrigueOneOwner99]

quetions...

5 ) What kind of fuel do you use? Your valves look clean, like mine. What was the mileage on that motor? Did you ever do any top-end cleaning? I would appreciate hi-res pix of the valves. Could you PM me?

I only use regular 87 Octane fuel - usually Shell or Speedway.

The mileage is just a couple hundred short of 151,000.

The only serious cleaning I have done on this block is shown in those photos.

I was not able to get photos of the actual valves. I did not have a small portable LED light I could stick in the chamber to light the valves for a photo.

6) You are talking about an external oil leak, on top of the engine, that then gets sucked into the intake manifold through a leaky gasket. Did you verify the intake leaks? Didn't you have run problems or poor gas mileage?

Yes I verified the oil leak into the intake manifold. The entire interior of the manifold was covered in oil, and the seals themselves were perfectly flat - almost below the top of the recess they were in. Five of the six intake seals bled through. You can see this in the "burn marks" on the top of the block.

It's has not been unusual for me to get 150 miles on 9 or 10 gallons of gas, but nearly all of this is city. My driving tank to tank varies in terms of how much city or highway mileage I do, and of course add in big city traffic. So, it's been quite some time since I have tracked the mileage. It's never good city on a vehicle this big.

7) What was your oil consumption rate?

Usually 2000 miles into an oil change the "low oil" light would go on. I would then have to put in 2/3 of a quart. Prior to 3500 miles, I would have to put another 1/2 or 1/3 into the engine.

 

[dmal]

I had the same problem with my intrigue. It ended up being the balance shaft seal and manifold gaskets leaking. I also had miss firing problems that the computer didnt reconize all because of oil getting onto the fuel injector heads. replaced the rings around them and all is good now.

 

[e5mc]

I have changed the balance shaft seal on my 2000 intrigue, and I agree it did need it, but I do not see how the oil in the intake could come from this seal. If the intake seal was bad would it cause the motor to run bad. Could the oil be from the valve seals. Is there a way to fix them without a rebuild? Any ideas

 

[Triguie_2000_GLS]

I have changed the balance shaft seal on my 2000 intrigue, and I agree it did need it, but I do not see how the oil in the intake could come from this seal. If the intake seal was bad would it cause the motor to run bad. Could the oil be from the valve seals. Is there a way to fix them without a rebuild? Any ideas

An upper end rebuild isn't that bad in my opinion. I need to do my valve cover seals myself. Just need to find the time to do it.

 

[Chas-Charlie]

This happens too. Northstar rings, too soft... Its a racecar engine honestly. WOT procedure.

http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=33344

 

[moogvo]

I did this repair last night. It only took me 5 hours (taking my time) though, and that included a trip to the auto parts store. I expected a totally dry intake but realized during disassembly that there are coolant lines to the throttle body. It also includes the time it took for cleaning up and mopping the floor.

There are a lot of vacuum lines so make sure to document them all before removal. Also, it is a plastic intake so be careful not to crack it. These engines are discontinued and there are none left. Some parts are really tough to come by.

thanks for the detailed write up.

 

[camo-intrigue]

i have the same problem with mine its got 280,000 miles on it it still run like new but for some reason wen these cars get old thay burn off oil and lots of it i top mine off once a week with 2 to 4 quarts.these motors just burn oil their is no getting around it unless u get a new or rebuilt motor or new rings

 

[swagled]

Yep. Intrigues luuuuv oil. I'm at 218K and probably adding a quart every 500 miles.

I did have my valve covers redone about 3000 miles ago and the car runs decent on 87 octane again. Someone comfortable doing his own top side work on the engine, can get some additional value from that.

 

[CaptSoloNJ]

Most cars with higher performance engines develop the "Disappearing Oil" Syndrome when they get older. My 2000 Intrigue started to lose oil at 85K miles. My mechanic looked all over for where it was going. He said the exhaust, engine gaskets, coolants, etc. showed no leakage or obvious burning.

I have resigned to the fact that I need to add a quart every 900 miles at $3.50 a quart. And an oil change every 6,000 miles.

Even if I add 20 quarts a year, that's $70 a year. Even a moderate repair of any kind will cost at least $500, so stop looking. I am not a purist, as long as the car runs well.

All Intrigues are between 12 to 16 years old. Mine actually still runs great at 14 years, but I am willing to add oil until it finally quits.