Driving Me Crazy!

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frickenbored

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Hi guys,

I have a 2000 Oldsmobile Intrigue that is kicking my ass right now. It starts when it wants to.

I get in it one morning, turn the key and nothing. Dash lights up fine, headlights work, wipers work, no starter click or anything. I put a charger on the battery and it starts. Next day same thing so I jump it again and it starts so I let the car sit for a little while and use a multimeter to check the battery voltage which was 12.34 volts, turn the key and it wont crank at all. At first it had three codes in it. two for crankshaft sensor A and B faults and one code for camshaft sensor. There's no way all three went bad at the same time so i erased those codes and they've yet to come back. Then I did a draw test and found a 106 miliamp draw that goes down to a 35 miliamp draw when you unplug the BCM fuse and plug it back in.

35 miliamp is normal. Its done this several more times where it won't crank with the battery at full charge untill you jump it. Has anyone heard of anything like this? Are BCM's known to go bad? The starter is only 6 months old and works when I manually jump the power to the solenoid wire. Maybe the ignition switch is bad? but it seems to work perfectly, key has never gotten stuck. I'm pretty much at a stand still. I've cleaned battery cables, checked the starter wires, they alternator is charging at 14.5 volts which is perfect. Not sure where to go next.
 
What is the battery voltage when you turn the key to crank?

What does the battery voltage drop to when you turn your headlights on, then add blower motor to max and then add on rear defroster?

After that, what voltage does the battery recover to and how long does it take?
 
frickenbored said:
Next day same thing so I jump it again and it starts so I let the car sit for a little while and use a multimeter to check the battery voltage which was 12.34 volts,
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I'm not sure if you are saying the battery reads 12.34 volts with the car running or off, but if it's while running you have some alternator problems as the voltage should be around 14.? volts or so.
 
Why in the world would you not replace BOTH of those sensors if they threw codes at you? Those are classic symptoms of a bad crank/cam sensor. Replace them both and $100 says the car will start just fine, and you can put your voltmeter away.
BTW-you can clear codes, specifically the crank/cam pos. codes and they will stay gone for a while, doesn't mean it's not the problem, and there is 1 crankshaft sensor, 1 camshaft sensor, not 3, and Yes it is VERY possible they are BOTH bad.
 
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When the sensors are bad, the car turns over, just doesn't start correct? He's saying it doesn't turn over or anything.

How long does it take you to put a charger on it? If the answer is 20 min or more, it could be the lock cylinder. If you leave the key to "on" after trying to start it, does the security light blink? I had a devil of a time trying to diagnose my lock cylinder several years back. The CEL codes for the sensors are troublesome however.
 
Intrigues do have a reputation for sporadic starting problems that can be tough to diagnose.

When you have a lot of miles on the starter, cam and crank sensors, and ignition switch, any of them may be the culprit and sometimes it is due to interplay between them.
 
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If both sensors were bad, the ECM shouldn't even let the car turn over, or at least I was told. The crankshaft sensor usually fails first, but the car will usually crank as the cam sensor is the failsafe, if they are both bad I think the ecm will keep the car from even rotating in order to protect itself, has no idea if the timing is right at that point.
 
alright sorry its taken me a while to post back. Turns out it was a pretty easy fix. I lifted the car up one more time to check the wires on the back of the starter just to double check that they were tight, and yes the wires were tight but when I went to put a wrench on the battery wire the whole plastic piece that crimped onto the back of the solenoid rotated.

So I removed the starter and found out that the back of the solenoid where the wires bolt up was broken internally. I could rotate it back and forth. So I made use of my lifetime warranty and got a free one, Problem fixed. Starts everytime and all three codes have gone away. No long crank time or anything, not sure why the cam and crank sensor codes came up but I'll worry about that if they ever come back.

Thanks to everyone that replied though, hopefully this thread will help someone else with a similar problem.
 
Could be many things. If you have a scanner that shows real-time information, you can see if the crank command is active when you turn the key to crank. If that is the case, then it could be the relays, starter, or wiring.

BTW, it's not that uncommon for rebuilt starters and alternators to fail after a short time. If you know anyone that works in the big car parts stores, they can verify that. One of the very few benefits from all of the PITA :) teenagers owning Mustangs is that many also work at car parts stores. Yet another reason I buy new OEM parts when I can. :)
 
frickenbored said:
So I removed the starter and found out that the back of the solenoid where the wires bolt up was broken internally. I could rotate it back and forth. So I made use of my lifetime warranty and got a free one, Problem fixed. Starts everytime and all three codes have gone away. No long crank time or anything, not sure why the cam and crank sensor codes came up but I'll worry about that if they ever come back.
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Cutlass350 said:
BTW, it's not that uncommon for rebuilt starters and alternators to fail after a short time. If you know anyone that works in the big car parts stores, they can verify that. One of the very few benefits from all of the PITA :) teenagers owning Mustangs is that many also work at car parts stores. Yet another reason I buy new OEM parts when I can. :)
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Gee, I go off to eat my food that was ready, and you already have it fixed. I guess I should've double checked before finishing my post. :)

Glad you got it fixed! :)
 
Free fixes are the best. After I posted about the sensors I started thinking about the starter as well, good to know for any of my own future issues.
With those sensors you know what to keep in mind it looks like, delayed starting. I had the crank pos. codes when I first picked mine up, but I was taking the battery out quite often to charge and the crank codes never came back after the battery removal, however it was giving me delayed starts every so often.

As a side note on the starters and alternators, when I was working for A.Z we had to test anything we sold before it left the store, and the "cheaper" value line we carried would fail frequently-50% of the time, the more expensive "gold" line proved a bit better quality wise, but the would still fail a good 25% of the time. Never a surprise when most of these failed parts said "Made in China".
 
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yea I always doubted that all three sensors (cam and crank A/crank B) all went bad at the same time. And I know that even when those sensors go bad the engine will at least turn over.

I'm a mechanic at a chrysler dealership and I've seen crank and cam sensors go bad but it usually just makes for a longer crank time. But not knowing if GM disables the starter when all of them go bad and not having a generic scan tool that would read crank sensor data, always left a doubt in my mind.

U expect parts to last longer than 6 months but....oh well.
 
There is no crankshaft A/B senors, there is only 1 for the crank and 1 for the cam, look it up. I'm not trying to be some "know it all" d-bag, just clarifying.

Tomorrow I'm going to unplug both these sensors, crank on it and see what happens.
 
505_pike said:
There is no crankshaft A/B senors, there is only 1 for the crank and 1 for the cam, look it up. I'm not trying to be some "know it all" d-bag, just clarifying.
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Actually, the crank sensor is a combined sensor that does contain two sensors, and GM does call them A and B sensors. When one fails, you can have extended crank times. If this happens, cycle the ignition off and try cranking immediately and you should have a normal start.

ry%3D400


The sensors have a cap over them. I have always wondered if those sensors get fooled by metal particles embedded in baked-on sludge in poorly maintained engines. If so, cleaning them instead of replacing them might solve an issue. Haven't experimented with that, too big a pain to replace them just to be fooling around, but if someone was broke and willing to gamble their time, who knows?
 
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Insert foot in mouth....
"Actually, the crank sensor is a combined sensor that does contain two sensors, and GM does call them A and B sensors. When one fails, you can have extended crank times. If this happens, cycle the ignition off and try cranking immediately and you should have a normal start."
I must look like a fool. krivasolds, do you know off hand if both the crank, and cam pos. sensors are bad, will our cars still crank/turn over? Does the cam sensor also had these A/B sensors within itself as well?
 
505_pike said:
krivasolds, do you know off hand if both the crank, and cam pos. sensors are bad, will our cars still crank/turn over? Does the cam sensor also have these A/B sensors within itself as well?
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Hey, wasn't trying to make you feel foolish, sorry. I think the vehicle will crank but if it has a CPS code and a Crank sensor code you're probably looking at a wiring issue. It should crank, just not start. The cam sensor does not have the A/B sensing system - it has just 3 wires.
 
No worries krivasolds, it's usefull information, the foolishness was self-inflected. I read a lot of your post to gain knowledge personally.
 
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