Air pump question
- Thread starter redd_planet
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505_pike
New member
I hate secondary air...not because it is expensive, annoyingly loud, tight to work on...well actually I do hate it for all those things, and the fact that mine would spool everytime I drove the car (well after the 30 seconds initiall start period).
I pulled the fuse for it because I couldn't stand the surges anymore, and tomorrow if weather allows I'm pulling some none secondary air manifolds.
Seconday air will be in the garbage after that.
I pulled the fuse for it because I couldn't stand the surges anymore, and tomorrow if weather allows I'm pulling some none secondary air manifolds.
Seconday air will be in the garbage after that.
I think the secondary air can be blamed on California emissions. CA was too large a market to ignore, and it was simpler for GM to push this onto all cars and sell them as "50 state vehicles".
You probably can yank the secondary air and pass local emissions tests in most places. Then you have the OBD2 code to consider, but after a while burying this may become common knowlegde like deactivating PassLock is.
You probably can yank the secondary air and pass local emissions tests in most places. Then you have the OBD2 code to consider, but after a while burying this may become common knowlegde like deactivating PassLock is.
billcarson
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the most ridicules useless wasteful system i have ever seen.disgusting politicians at work trying to justify their high salaries at the public's expense.what are a thousand politicians at the bottom of the sea?(a start).
Triguie_2000_GLS
Member
Wouldn't pass CT emissions. If the CEL comes/is on, then you instantly fail. Secondary Air is a test on Secondary Air equipped vehicles. I need to get mine fixed cause my emissions are due next month.
505_pike
New member
Don't forget Sinister who said they could remove secondary air provisions and still keep the CEL off.
I'm sending mine in after I have everything in place, and with the car not drivable at that point I'm going to address the water crossover gaskets.
I'll post when I get the PCM flashed though.
I'm sending mine in after I have everything in place, and with the car not drivable at that point I'm going to address the water crossover gaskets.
I'll post when I get the PCM flashed though.
Cutlass350
New member
I don't know of any smog check place that will pass a car that has the CEL light on. Now, as far as I know, every smog check in America does an OBD-II read for cars 96 and newer.
IIRC, it may be possible for a "typical person" to do the reprogramming themselves. IIRC, the cost of the hardware was over $1K for the programmer. And, they want something like $200+ per vehicle definition file. Plus, there's the learning curve.
I don't have any desire to do any performance tuning on my LX5. So, I didn't look any further into the suggestion from a gear-head GM friend.
Performance tuning on an LX5, or just about any engine, is limited. The real-life options are more spark advance and a slightly more richer mixture at WOT. Note that in both of those cases, "more" could mean less HP for a specific engine and base tune.
For an LX5, there's no reason to touch the other (~100-300+) tuning parameters (base idle, cold idle, "accelerator pump", "dashpot", radiator fan turn on/off, etc).
For the pre96 cars, smog laws get more involved. Many States, like Mass, don't do smog checks on pre 96 cars. The reason is purely economical and because of garage owners lobbying. It takes more time to do a tail-pipe test. And, there are the expensive dyno and tail-pipe sniffer maintenance and inspection costs. There is a small percentage of cars that are on the road, travel a lot of miles, and are pre 96. So, the States/Counties look at their car registrations and the years, the past smog results (also has the number of miles per year per car), and do a semi-BS estimation on how much more smog there might be if they don't test pre-96 cars.
Each State/County still has to worry about meeting Federal Clean Air standards. They risk the loss of Federal funding for roads, projects, etc. In other words, a massive amount of money for each State/County.
Conn still does a tail-pipe and dyno smog test on cars that are pre-96. But, they don't do smog tests on cars that are over 25 years old.
Each State/County has the right to change their smog testing laws, and they often do.
Yes, what you said is correct.
However, I don't want people to misunderstand what Sinister says and promises. I know a few people that have had mods done by Sinister. The reason I recommend him is because he is very honest and straight forward.
Yes, Sinister can disable the the AIR system check, and prevent the CEL from being lit and an error code from being generated.
NOTE: When a system/function check is disabled in the PCM, like for the AIR system, approx ~99% of the time, that test is labeled as "Not Ready".
IIRC, there are only a very few PCMs and very few tests where a disabled test will show up as "Ready and Passed".
The possible states are:
Not Ready
Ready and Passed
Failed
When you disconnect the battery, the state will be "Not Ready" for the functions. After a number of start/stops, and a number of miles in closed loop, the function will go to either "Ready and Passed" or "Failed".
With a modified PCM, that function (like AIR) will stay "Not Ready".
Different States and Counties have different laws/rules on how they handle a "Not Ready" status in the smog tests.
Yes, this is America, with the screwy Federal and State laws. Makes sense in some ways, not in others.
Since the AIR system is not a "critical" emissions/control system/function, "many" States/Counties will allow between 1 or 2 "Not Ready" non-critical functions, and still pass the car for smog.
FWIW, the oxygen sensors are examples of tests/functions that are critical.
Some States/Counties do not allow any "Not Ready" tests.
As far as I know, there's no way to get a list of what tests each State/County considers "critical".
Every person I talked to told me that Sinister made the above very clear in his emails. And, he also made it very clear that any mods where for off-road use only.
If that's not the case anymore, please let me know.
Hope the above helps.
IIRC, it may be possible for a "typical person" to do the reprogramming themselves. IIRC, the cost of the hardware was over $1K for the programmer. And, they want something like $200+ per vehicle definition file. Plus, there's the learning curve.
I don't have any desire to do any performance tuning on my LX5. So, I didn't look any further into the suggestion from a gear-head GM friend.
Performance tuning on an LX5, or just about any engine, is limited. The real-life options are more spark advance and a slightly more richer mixture at WOT. Note that in both of those cases, "more" could mean less HP for a specific engine and base tune.
For an LX5, there's no reason to touch the other (~100-300+) tuning parameters (base idle, cold idle, "accelerator pump", "dashpot", radiator fan turn on/off, etc).
For the pre96 cars, smog laws get more involved. Many States, like Mass, don't do smog checks on pre 96 cars. The reason is purely economical and because of garage owners lobbying. It takes more time to do a tail-pipe test. And, there are the expensive dyno and tail-pipe sniffer maintenance and inspection costs. There is a small percentage of cars that are on the road, travel a lot of miles, and are pre 96. So, the States/Counties look at their car registrations and the years, the past smog results (also has the number of miles per year per car), and do a semi-BS estimation on how much more smog there might be if they don't test pre-96 cars.
Each State/County still has to worry about meeting Federal Clean Air standards. They risk the loss of Federal funding for roads, projects, etc. In other words, a massive amount of money for each State/County.
Conn still does a tail-pipe and dyno smog test on cars that are pre-96. But, they don't do smog tests on cars that are over 25 years old.
Each State/County has the right to change their smog testing laws, and they often do.
Yes, what you said is correct.
However, I don't want people to misunderstand what Sinister says and promises. I know a few people that have had mods done by Sinister. The reason I recommend him is because he is very honest and straight forward.
Yes, Sinister can disable the the AIR system check, and prevent the CEL from being lit and an error code from being generated.
NOTE: When a system/function check is disabled in the PCM, like for the AIR system, approx ~99% of the time, that test is labeled as "Not Ready".
IIRC, there are only a very few PCMs and very few tests where a disabled test will show up as "Ready and Passed".
The possible states are:
Not Ready
Ready and Passed
Failed
When you disconnect the battery, the state will be "Not Ready" for the functions. After a number of start/stops, and a number of miles in closed loop, the function will go to either "Ready and Passed" or "Failed".
With a modified PCM, that function (like AIR) will stay "Not Ready".
Different States and Counties have different laws/rules on how they handle a "Not Ready" status in the smog tests.
Yes, this is America, with the screwy Federal and State laws. Makes sense in some ways, not in others.
Since the AIR system is not a "critical" emissions/control system/function, "many" States/Counties will allow between 1 or 2 "Not Ready" non-critical functions, and still pass the car for smog.
FWIW, the oxygen sensors are examples of tests/functions that are critical.
Some States/Counties do not allow any "Not Ready" tests.
As far as I know, there's no way to get a list of what tests each State/County considers "critical".
Every person I talked to told me that Sinister made the above very clear in his emails. And, he also made it very clear that any mods where for off-road use only.
If that's not the case anymore, please let me know.
Hope the above helps.
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505_pike
New member
No he didn't lead me to beleive I could pass emissions if I tried, just said he could get the CEL off with no secondary air. I'm going to have the cold start idle adjusted too because it only idles high for 5 seconds now, then drops to normal idle and I just don't like it.
Good to know about the "not ready" stage, and the fact that some states will let you pass with one or two.
Good to know about the "not ready" stage, and the fact that some states will let you pass with one or two.
Cutlass350
New member
Being in NM, you can likely get by without any high idle.
In many places, on many days, it gets below 0F. Brr....
And, mornings are in the teens, or lower. So, it's unlikely that one of those cars could get by without a high cold idle.
Adjusting the cold idle, and warm idle parameters are two of the most common parameters changed. For engines with big cams, etc, they often have to idle higher to prevent stalling and surging.
It's good to hear that Sinister didn't misled you about emissions. IMHO, that's one of the reasons why he still does custom tunes. Back in the 90's, many people offered custom tunes with outrageous power, gas mileage, drive-ability, emissions, etc claims. Just about all of them are out of business now after getting many many nasty reviews and comments in the forums.
BTW, below is one of my favorite pictures. It's my super cute doggie - Pjr in the winter. It was -0.6F outside. I had the window open and screen up. That's why the thermometer shows mid 50's for the "inside" temperature.
Pjr is in the center near the top of the picture. Just behind the picnic table.
Outside Temperature on 01/15/2004. Brrr...
Good luck with the tune!
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Can anyone possibly tell me where i can find the check valves i have looked all over the exhaust manifolds and maybe i am just not seeing it. I have a 2000 gx that i just bought 2.5 weeks ago and has 125k on it and within 2 days the light was on. like i said previously the pump comes on and i guess now i am working from there. i took the headlight out today and there is a new pump that was put in which has a manufacture date of 12/10. If anyone could please help it would be greatly appreciated thanks
the code is secondary air pump could that be the valve with the diaphragm i think it is called the secondary air shut off valve part number ACDelco 214-1940
the code is secondary air pump could that be the valve with the diaphragm i think it is called the secondary air shut off valve part number ACDelco 214-1940
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505_pike
New member
@Cutlass350-good to know about low and high idle...guess I was so used to it I freaked when it wasn't there, although I am planning on pickig up and moving to Montana...BRRR! (At least from what I'm used to).
That's a nice pic all the way around, the snow, thermometer, dog hanging around...stuff like that warms the soul.
That's a nice pic all the way around, the snow, thermometer, dog hanging around...stuff like that warms the soul.
Cutlass350
New member
IMHO, you must get a GM DEALER service manual to work on the engine.
The huge two volume set often costs a "massive" ~$40 on ebay.
IMHO, otherwise, you're just asking to screw things up, or to take a very long time trying to figure out how to repair/replace something.
BTW, for a 2000+, you want a 2000+ service manual since the 98 and 99 don't have the AIR systems. Otherwise, there's not a huge difference in the 2000+ years.
Hmm, right now, there are plenty of cheap 98 and 99 DEALER service manuals. But, I don't see a 2000+ DEALER service manual for under $100.
IMHO, that's still a STEAL considering the orig price and it's worth. But, the used DEALER manuals often come up for much cheaper.
Ebay search link:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=Intrigue+manual+(2000,00,01,02,2001,2002)
If you're asking about the AIR valves, they are #1 and #17 in the following diagrams:
You can see what an AIR valve, and the the AIR tube, looks like on the engine in the picture below:
My picture is showing what the diagrams above refer to as #1, #4, and #10.
Good Luck!
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Could you post the link ?? all i saw was each of em not a pair.
how much vacuum pressure is supposed to be there off of the top line ??
505_pike
New member
I'm not sure of exact numbers, I don't know if the service manual even gives parameters, but they are supposed to hold when vaccum is applied. Mine would hardly build vaccum at all, then when you stopped pumping they would leak down in seconds (I was using a mittyvac handheld pump with a PSI gauge, as fast as I could pump I never saw anything greater than 10psi). Very irritating system to say the least.
they are gone now might get relisted
secondary air pump replacement
I recently had my secondary air pump changed and I notice the load humming sound for about 30 seconds to a min. after starting the engine. when I brought it back back to the mechanic they that sound is the air pump. I said I never heard make that sound before and his reply was. " its working now, that's why you never heard it before." is he full of shit or is there something else going on here. had the car about 5 years never heard that sound before.
I recently had my secondary air pump changed and I notice the load humming sound for about 30 seconds to a min. after starting the engine. when I brought it back back to the mechanic they that sound is the air pump. I said I never heard make that sound before and his reply was. " its working now, that's why you never heard it before." is he full of shit or is there something else going on here. had the car about 5 years never heard that sound before.
Triguie_2000_GLS
Member
The mechanic is correct. You never heard it before because if it has issues then it won't run. It will try but not actually turn on. It's only on for about 30 seconds during a cold start.
My forward canister is bad. Currently awaiting a replacement. My pump works fine but after removing the canister and starting he car, I hear the pump start but it's much quieter and doesn't make a high pitch whine like it used to.
Just gotta get it through emissions and do the valve seals. My brother is getting my Intrigue and I'm picking up an '02 STS.
handmedownintrigue
New member
I've got to buy a this for my Intrigue, too. It used to just run for 30 seconds or so, but now it suddenly won't shut off and is making a 'dying bearing' sound. I see there's a bracket for it - what's the general consensus on the bracket? Buy it or no? Any other parts I should get before I send it off, parts and all, to the mechanic?
Cutlass350
New member
First, welcome to the forums!
No need to buy the bracket.
I think that I mentioned, that I got mine from Amazon, they had the best price. But, I think that I may have had to wait 1-3 weeks for it.
I think you're mistaken then when you say it's the air pump. The air pump is controlled by the the PCM (engine computer). If the PCM was bad, the engine wouldn't run.
If I recall correctly, there is a relay for the air pump and I think it's in the fuse box (engine compartment passenger-side fender). But, it's unlikely that the relay would be stuck on. Possible, but unlikely.
So, first, disconnect the power connector on the Air Pump. If that stops the constant noise, then, you also likely have a bad air pump power relay, or a shorted wire (before the relay).
Let me know what you find.
Use an automotive test light (~$10), voltmeter/DVM, to check for power and grounds. Even Walmart sells the test lights.
Quick 2min video on how to use a test light:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPSBaYw2uEo
Good Luck!
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