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Oldsmobile Forum: 2001 Intrigue temperature went to 3/4 marker
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  #1  
Old March 15th, 2019
01OldsIntrigueOwner 01OldsIntrigueOwner is offline
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2001 Intrigue temperature went to 3/4 marker

I was on my way to the rec center and on the temperature gauge, it went to the 3/4 marker with the heater on, and it would go down with the A/C on and hitting the accelerator. I changed the thermostat since the old one stopped working when the heater core hose got crimped accidentally, got the cooling system flushed, and the fans do work, somewhat (will check the fans again). I also installed a new coolant recovery tank since the old one had a leak and spewed over my pulley system. It's not supposed to warm up in 15 minutes (should be 30 minutes at best) and I can't use the floor jack on the front end due to the front suspension being lower than the rear, but, the ramps might suffice, if I can fit my derriere under the car. The funny thing is, my coolant is full. Help? The car has 118K+ miles on it and it's not the head gaskets that are bad (no oil in the coolant, no coolant in the oil, no white smoke, no misfiring or knocking).
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  #2  
Old March 15th, 2019
01OldsIntrigueOwner 01OldsIntrigueOwner is offline
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Removed Discord server invite.

Last edited by 01OldsIntrigueOwner; March 18th, 2019 at 09:47 PM.
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  #3  
Old March 17th, 2019
Cutlass350 Cutlass350 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01OldsIntrigueOwner View Post
Sign up on my Discord Server: https://discord.gg/--------- link invite never expires.
WTF is this??
Was your account hacked?
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  #4  
Old March 17th, 2019
Cutlass350 Cutlass350 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01OldsIntrigueOwner View Post
I was on my way to the rec center and on the temperature gauge, it went to the 3/4 marker with the heater on, and it would go down with the A/C on and hitting the accelerator. I changed the thermostat since the old one stopped working when the heater core hose got crimped accidentally, got the cooling system flushed, and the fans do work, somewhat (will check the fans again). I also installed a new coolant recovery tank since the old one had a leak and spewed over my pulley system. It's not supposed to warm up in 15 minutes (should be 30 minutes at best) and I can't use the floor jack on the front end due to the front suspension being lower than the rear, but, the ramps might suffice, if I can fit my derriere under the car. The funny thing is, my coolant is full. Help? The car has 118K+ miles on it and it's not the head gaskets that are bad (no oil in the coolant, no coolant in the oil, no white smoke, no misfiring or knocking).
A few things:

1) My full-size big *ss 3ton Craftsman floor jack fits fine under my Intrigue.
The Intrigue isn't a lowered car.
Regardless, I typically use my ~35lb 1.5ton aluminum floor on my cars.



2)
Quote:
The car has 118K+ miles on it and it's not the head gaskets that are bad (no oil in the coolant, no coolant in the oil, no white smoke, no misfiring or knocking).
None of that means a lot when it comes to most head gasket failures on GM engines.
I drove my Intrigue for 9+ months with a bad head gasket. No loss of power, no loss of gas mileage, never a CEL. Even the IM (emissions tests) all passed.
But, it was like playing Russian Roulette. It was just a matter to time until the head gasket got much worse.

GM head gaskets fail for many reasons and in many way.
Parts fail by age, usage, etc.

It's not easy to diagnose a head gasket that is on the edge. It won't always "be bad".
The issue is that the heads are under-designed. Fwiw, that's very common with GM's aluminum heads.
The heads expand/shrink/move too much. That prevents the head gasket from keeping a seal. The more the heads move, the more the gasket struggles to stay attached to both the head and the block.

As the gasket starts to fail, it will go from having a good seal, to a bad seal, to having a good seal, to having a bad seal, etc.

Unless the mechanic can catch the gasket when it's not sealing properly, it can be hard for the mechanic to say that is the problem. And, that's a Very Expensive repair. So, it's not a repair that is done without good cause.

The only real way that indicates that the gasket is going, is an inconsistent temperature measurement (not the gauge - see #3).



3) Considering the age of the car, there's a good chance that it might be the gauge/dash-assembly.
Mine has been "wonky" at times for 7+ years. But, it's often only wonky for "short" period of time.
Usually, the temp gauge is the only gauge that is effected.
Still, seeing the temp gauge go up high and then stay there, isn't a good thing to see when you're driving.
I now keep a cheap (~$20) OBD-II reader in the car. Keep it in the trunk, put it in a baggie, it'll be fine.
Before, I used a bluetooth OBD-II dongle and the Torque Pro Android app. But, they *******ed up the app. It no longer works with the dongle I keep in the car and the car. I have an old version on an old phone, and that old version still works fine.

Plus, it's more of a hassle to use the dongle and then the app, then to use a cheap $20 OBD-II reader that shows live data and it very simple and easy to use. Plus, I can use it with gloves on.


Summary:
You need an OBD-II reader to verify if it's the gauge or the sensor/measurement.

I forget where the temperature sender is. But, if you replace it, it must be one bought directly from a GM dealer. Otherwise, there's a non-small chance that you're buying a counterfeit.
A counterfeit sensor does what ever. So, who knows if you're getting correct data, if the sensor is too slow, if the sensor is too noisy etc.
Also, temp sensors rarely go on 3.5s.


Good luck!
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  #5  
Old March 18th, 2019
01OldsIntrigueOwner 01OldsIntrigueOwner is offline
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Found the temperature sensor location according to AutoZone's site: https://www.autozone.com/repairguide...96b43f81b3dade in the rear by the right cylinder.
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  #6  
Old March 18th, 2019
01OldsIntrigueOwner 01OldsIntrigueOwner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cutlass350 View Post
WTF is this??
Was your account hacked?
My account wasn't hacked. I made a Discord server myself, that's all.

I looked at the recovery tank and it looks like there's an air trap somewhere. It's not leaking coolant anywhere as the tank is still at the full hot marker after driving it for 30 minutes, except it stays at the full hot marker after being parked to cool down. I don't hear any knocking, except for the exhaust noise (split where the resonator and catalytic converter connects, which I'll be fixing on Friday afternoon) and the motor still sounds pretty good. I might take my car into the shop to get it looked at to make sure the head gaskets are still good or get them replaced (money's kind of tight right now).

Last edited by 01OldsIntrigueOwner; March 18th, 2019 at 09:19 PM.
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  #7  
Old March 21st, 2019
Cutlass350 Cutlass350 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01OldsIntrigueOwner View Post
My account wasn't hacked. I made a Discord server myself, that's all.
Best I can tell, a Discord Server has something to do with people that play video games??

Quote:
I might take my car into the shop to get it looked at to make sure the head gaskets are still good or get them replaced.
Did you check the temperature data with an ODB-II scanner? Even my ~$20 cheap *ss ebay scanner shows real-time data.

One thing about bringing it to a non-dealer, is that they will 99% of the time change the thermostat first.
This is not a Honda. GM thermostats rarely go. And, GM aluminum heads are, imho, the biggest POS heads out there.
So, that's a $100-$200+ waste of money. Plus, of course, let's do a full coolant flush.
Arg!!!

Yes, Dealers are often Very Expensive.
But, they won't "make a 'best' guess", like a local mechanic will.
I've talked extensively about the difference between the two types, and why they are different.

Imho, for many GM engines, an overheating engine just massively screws the owner. Because most owners will bring it to a local mechanic. That mechanic will WASTE the owners money - often to the tune of $200-$600+ dollars.

Fwiw, a good/proper Dealer mechanic has a number of ways to see that it's the head gasket. Many ways are not available to the local mechanic because of the cost of the equipment, and the required training.

Fwiw, if you have a good OBD-II scanner that shows misfires, that may help.
Also, checking the spark plugs may help.

Fwiw, replacing the thermostat and flushing the coolant often seems to work initially. But, in a week->month, the over heating returns.
That's happened to a number of people on this forum.


Btw, the "correct way to fix" a bad head gasket is to send the heads out to be shaved/planed flat.
Fwiw, imho, it's very rarely needed. Again, it's important to know why the head gasket fails. The heads stay flat.
And, imho, shaving the bottom of the head flat causes a more issues.

But, that's a risk you'll have to decide about.
Fwiw, many mechanics will not do a head gasket on an aluminum head, unless they send the head out to be shaved.
Fwiw, *I* agree with that business choice. But, that does add a non trivial cost to the repair.


Good Luck.

Last edited by Cutlass350; March 21st, 2019 at 11:15 PM.
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  #8  
Old March 22nd, 2019
01OldsIntrigueOwner 01OldsIntrigueOwner is offline
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Thanks for the tips. I replaced the spark plugs back in October since the old ones were wearing out. Also, which OBD2 scanner do you recommend? There's BlueDriver Pro and JDiag FasLink M2 for smartphones or tablets (iOS and Android) and it can read live data from engine RPMs to Fuel system live data (such as how much is left in the tank, pressure from the pump to the engine, and all of that good stuff).

BlueDriver: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00652G4TS/ref=cm_sw_su_dp
JDiag FasLink M2: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07G5DQZLR//ref=cm_sw_su_dp

The JDiag FasLink M2 software v2 and higher also has ABS/SRS/TCM/PCM diagnostic scans on there (might be wrong, hard to tell), whereas the BlueDriver supported that since the initial release of the BlueDriver OBD-II scanner.

Last edited by 01OldsIntrigueOwner; March 22nd, 2019 at 02:36 AM.
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  #9  
Old March 30th, 2019
01OldsIntrigueOwner 01OldsIntrigueOwner is offline
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I ordered the JDiag FasLink M2 on Amazon and the item was missing during shipping. Apparently, the seller didn't seal the envelope when shipping the item and it went missing. Got my refund of $39.99 after talking to the Amazon support team and I'll order the BlueDriver module on Amazon or eBay or the JDiag from eBay.
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  #10  
Old April 10th, 2019
01OldsIntrigueOwner 01OldsIntrigueOwner is offline
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I got the BlueDriver OBD2 scanning tool last Friday for my Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge and my Nexus 7 2012 8GB with Lineage OS 14.1 Nougat 7.1.2 so I can run some diagnostics to see what's going on with the cooling system.

I did the live data and when I'm at a red light or stop sign for a long period of time, I notice the temperature is going up to 220F and higher. When I get a green light or go through a stop sign after waiting at said stop sign for a long period of time, the temperature goes down to 200F when I'm accelerating. I also cannot tell if the cooling fans were running or not, but, I think it's the aftermarket thermostat causing the issue (possibly broke when the heater core return hose was crimped several months ago). The coolant pressure is at 15PSI (measured it myself), however, I still need to fix the belt system (3 pulleys need to get replaced or re-aligned correctly) as I still hear a squeak from that. The coolant reads full cold when it's cooled down all the way and full hot after driving, which is a good sign, and the cylinder compression is still good according to the live data readout. Going to buy a new thermostat with the housing and gasket and flush the cooling system (will get 2 more gallons of Dex-Cool 50/50) before putting in the new one. My weekend plan is to put in the new pads and rotors I bought recently in the back of my car as they haven't been replaced in 7 years and fix the exhaust system.
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